winchester model 12 simmons rib

And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. Both shotguns shot to point of aim and all patterns were contained on the target paper due to precise aiming, facilitated by placing a 25-pound sack of lead shot between me and the gun butt. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. winchester model 12 description: for sale is a very nice vintage winchester model 12, 12ga ga shotgun. and/or Simmons, left in the "white", and sent to the other. No Reserve. This test, along with a check of adjustment remaining in the takedown joint and functioning of the slide lock dis-connector, are my standard mechanical checks for a Model 12. According to my source your Model 12 Winchester was made in 1924, so it is 89 years old. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. Buckinghams tests led him to buy his own custom Super Fox, Bo Whoop. Bo Whoop patterned about 90% at 40 yards with specially bored barrels. This is not John Waynes revolver it is a modern work of art! Has 30" barrel choked Full. The first was helping the gunsmiths. See pi, Winchester Model 12, 28 gauge SKEET pump action shotgun, circa 1955. I offer the following example from What Rarer Day in Buckinghams book De Shootinest Gentman and Other Tales published in 1934. Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. SN 1231992 Up for sale is a very clean and unique Winchester Model 12 in Pigeon Grade. Pictures are of the item listed. So here is a history lesson on the skeet grade. . Bob Hinman, in his 1972 GUN DIGEST article Ten Cents a Duck, notes that Shooting for the market was at one time a way of life for thousands of Americas skilled shotgunners.. I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. FORE ARM HAS A PEICE OF WOOD MI, This is an all original 1962 made Winchester Model 12 in the harder to find 16 Gauge. Most books say they did not. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. In their view, the Model 12 pump with 3-inch chamber was likely to sell better than a similarly chambered Model 21 double. K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. Experts can attest to the vast improvements they have found shooting with the Simmons Ventilated Rib. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 22 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! The marsh is in riot! When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Title. However, the Model 12 duck gun should still be an excellent long-range waterfowl shotgun with the right ammunition. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. At a reasenable Price, you can have that gun you allways wanted without all this drama. Classic Browning Light Twelve Auto-5 Review: Busting Clays With the Old Humpback Shotgun. I read your posts; you do love the Model 12, been there done that. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. Length of pull is 14". Edwin Pugsley, in charge of Winchester at the time of receivership, is quoted in Williamsons book: The purchase of the company by the Olin interests brought a breath of life to the institution and brought to Winchester many things. WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " Actually, it is generally thought by researchers that no Winchester factory Model 12 ribs were made or installed by Simmons. It has the long action slide handle. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. Winchester needed to cut it's manufacturing costs and the milled vented rib was a costly proceedure. THE VENTILATED RIB IS BY SIMMONS GIN, 16ga, Full Choke, 26" barrel with a bright and shiny bore. A great looking gun, in excellent condition. Most websites are poorly Askins rule of thumb of 70 years ago still pertains with modern lead-shot ammunition. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. seller description. 30 Barrel. But for some reason, buying a gun online can The used value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($310.78) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $447.25 . Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. No Reserve. I always wondered what the royalty was to Simmons on the Winchester Special Ventilated Rib that they installed. A smothered roar from around the corner! Winchester Model 12 Shotguns For Sale Shotgun Winchester Model 12. $550 USD. Charles Askins confirmed the tighter patterns and greater effective range in the field. However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. It has a fiber optic front sight which is not origina, SOLD Ser no 1949422, Mfg 1962, 3-Pin Vent Rib, Full, 30" Barrel, Signed by M Dubber, Who I beleive was a colt engraver, 14 1/2" Lop to Winchester Red Vented Pad, Comes with case, Excel, Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3" MAGNUM. The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. Some late duck guns came with special order Hydro-Coil stocks, according to Madis. He was the chief designer of the Model 21 double, John Olins favorite. The perimeter of the disc was then marked and the enclosed pellet holes counted. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. The stock is the upgraded Monte Carlo style capped pistol grip, heavy pad, upgraded wood, and cheek rest. Winchester ~ Model 12 Custom~ 12 GA Used Guns. The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. Also, the rib and its receiver extension cover the Winchester proof marks, a sure sign that it is not factory installed. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. Stay in the know. A Cold War era classic with smooth lines, a legendary back story, and an exotic-sounding name, Beretta's Model 71 was definitely a mouse that roared. Made in 1928, 12 Gauge, 28"" barrel. is 14" with pad. This gun is in excellent condition and has very desireable solid rib barrel with full choke. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. JavaScript is disabled. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. You are also correct that the different rib styles used on Model 12's can get confusing..EG. The Model 12 2 pin rib has always been "KING" but don't turn you nose up @ a Dounut Post model 12 as production in Trap & Skeet model only lasted from late 1955 to 1956 then round post was alternate rib to the 2 pin. Manufactured in 1962. Winchester Model 12 16 ga NIB Never Assembled! Franklin and his two sons John M. Olin and Spencer T. Olin were the managers of Olin Industries and Western Cartridge Company in 1931. the store. It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. Refresh your browser window to try again. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. Dolphin, I agree with you until the part where you imply that Model 12s were sent to Simmons for ribs and then sent back to Winchester to sell. A 2pin vent rib lets the shooter sight under the bird and keep the bird in sight. The drop at heel was reduced from 2-1/2 to 2-3/8 inches in December 1938. Charles Askins commented on the new Model 12 duck gun in the March 1936 issue of Outdoor Life: This should be the best long-range repeating shotgun now made or that has been made. No faint praise, but hardly a surprise. Dave Riffle in his book, The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built: The Model 12 1912-1964, states The Winchester Model 12 was, and still remains, the only gun that was offered in over 100 different variations or configurations during its lifetime. It is fair to say that Winchester produced Model 12 shotguns for every conceivable shotgunning special interest group, including duck hunters. Smith & Wesson Model 586: Reviewing A .357 Revolver With Class. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. In 1963, when production ended, Riffles book shows no options available. It is first shooting light. The receiver is heavier and so is the barrel. This shotg, FOR SALE IS A VERY NICE VINTAGE WINCHESTER MODEL 12, 12GA GA SHOTGUN. According to the Serial# 1439865, and Winchester manufacturing records, this gun w. 12ga, #366988, 30 inch barrel, 2 1/2 inch chamber, full choke, solid rib, blue finish, straight grip checkered walnut stock, checkered walnut forearm, 13 3/4 LOP with "newer" Winchester pad, 12ga, #1417110, 30 inch barrel, 3 inch chamber, full choke, blue finish, walnut stock and forearm, solid rib, original red rubber pad, 1954. 1934 skeet grade offerd. Produced in 1961. The balance point is the takedown joint. Wood is in very good condition showing very little handling or wear marks. Thats like spending 12 days straight day and night. My 1951 Winchester Ammunition Handbook gives a comparison of 17 to 11 feet at 60 yards. Model 42s with later ribs than the donut post, with no Simmons markings or with Simmons markings, and with proof marks in the proper places are thought to have had their ribs installed at Simmons and sent back to Winchester for marketing or marketed at Simmons. Blue Book on this fine collector 12 gauge is around $2,700! The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure. The committee appointed to study the requirements for continuing business reported a successful reorganization would require the raising of a substantial amount of new capital. That capital was supplied by the Olin family of Olin Industries, owners of Western Cartridge Company. Manufactured in 1959. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. to be finishedat least thats what Stadt says in his book"Winchester, Shotguns and Shotshells"very interesting book.a little different look at M-12 than Madis and Riffle.WC. From its debut until the end of the 1950's, the Winchester Model 1912 was the pump shotgun, long known as "the perfect repeater." The Olins bought Winchester for $8.1 million through a combination of $3.3 million cash and the balance in an issue of preferred stock. The short shot string put more shot into a duck whistling by at 50 yards. The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. That way, were helping small businesses in No Reserve. Both guns have 30-inch Full choke barrels inscribed FOR SUPER SPEED & SUPER-X 3 IN. The bores are bright with no pitting. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. Winchester Model 12 with checkered forearm (slide handle) b'. Factory original Model 12s with round post ribs were made by Winchester, not Simmons. I used to club trap targets with it. The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. Thanks for the reference. Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. Houze relates that for the Model 12 the Watrous report suggested improve the smoothness of the action as it is criticized for being rough. How this was to be accomplished is not related but closer hand-fitting and gauging of parts was likely. In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. Mechanically excellent. The price $379 does not seem out of line for model 12's in this area; however, my question is does the Simmons rib add or detract from the value of the gun? The nearest thing to a Model Twelve that could appear, whether domestic or foreign, would be a shotgun with the same model designation, but it would not and could not be a Model Twelve. Browning, in fact, did import foreign-made copies of the Model 12 after Madis wrote the above. It is in excellent condition with only light handing marks, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New Castle, Delaware "Home of TAX, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, 26" BBL, 2 3/4, POLY CHOKE, RIBLESS, EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIGGER, MEDIUM DARK FIGURED WALNUT, PISTOL GRIP, LOP 14 3/8, 1 1/2, 2 5/16, 7LBS 3OZ, 985 BLUE, Winchester. I hope this helps you out A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. Free shipping for many products! "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Westerns copper-plated shot, introduced about 1925, extended shotgun range even further. Teal, mallard, widgeon and sprig [pintail] hover singly and in bunches overhead. I was at a local gunshop this morning and was looking at a model 12 2-3/4" that had a Simmons rib. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked modified, and 14" LOP. Field grade pump gun with Mod choke barrel. The locked breech bolts of both guns have little perceptible play when the rear of the bolt is pressed from the side. Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? Just to add th the issue, here's a note that I copied from Trapshooters.com some time age. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. And, as WRACO states, Simmons installed Model 12 ribbed guns were sold by Simmons, not Winchester. the shot gun is in very good condition , with a 28 in ventilated rib barrel with full choke. Most annoying was the failure of the action-slide lock to function properly. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 27 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. I have several 2-pin guns. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. Model 12 duck guns could be ordered in pidgeon grade, featuring fancy wood and meticulous fitting and finish of parts. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. Winchester Model 12 1940's gun. M, ventilated rib, mid 1950's manufacture, completely original, only one ever produced by Winchester, ultimate rarity for the Model 12 co, 12ga, #1737096, standard gun that has been restocked and has a Simmons ventilated rib added, 12ga, 30 inch barrel, full choke, 2 3/4 inch chamber, 14 3/4 inch LOP with "Decelerator" pad, blu, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood, Winchester Model 12 28 gauge Skeet solid rib. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. , Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. The buttstock was reshaped on Model 12 shotguns again in the mid-1950s. I hunker down and blaze away. The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. It also got a new action slide. Action works very nicely. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. At Guns.com, if an FFL is Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. The rib wasn't offered until 1954 according to the Dave Riffle Model 12 book so it wasn't originally produced at the Winchester Factory. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. Simmons Gun Specialties rib has been added to barrel. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. It was a little rough so I am doing a restoration. The surge of zooming pinions [wings]! I sold 41 model 12's and 21's at a gun auction in Wichita Kansas to accommodate the move. Pattern percentages were around 70% with these latter loads. Today I have a nice collection of them, mostly target grade guns. (no choke stamp on barrel). Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. The solid rib gun shows carrying wear while the ventilated rib gun was refinished when the rib was installed. be complicated. But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. The silhouette provides a precise aiming point. 2. This is a shotgun I should never have sold. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. Its even harder to find a 2-barrel set 16 gauge. Since you in Kansas; ever deal with now deceased Felix Bedlan @ Fairbury, Neb. The first thing you notice when you pick up a duck gun is its weight and solid feel. The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The Model 12 was the first magazine repeater chambered for 3-inch magnum shells. The era of the double gun was ending as World War II approached. As you know that, Winchester Model 12 (factory original) 28-gauge pump action shotgun. Exquisite Winchester Model 12, 20 gauge with Modified bore. community. Item . No other pump shotgun feels like the duck gun. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. But the charm of idle jump-shooting is far too potent.. Winchester advises Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke. Use tungsten polymer, tungsten matrix or bismuth shot for waterfowl hunting with your Model 12 duck gun. Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 1d 15h 33m 17222600. Modified choke. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. The Model 21 double seemed the reasonable choice for Winchesters duck gun. Skeet gun marked "2 7/8" chamber skeet 28 gauge. George Madis indicates in his book The Winchester Model Twelve that about 18,000 Model 12 duck guns were sold during the 1935-1941 period. I worked in two gun shops when I was in college. In reading Stadt's statements on page 109 of the latest version of this book, I don't see where he is too sure of his statements. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our The shotgun featured here was made in 1976 and is in stellar condition. Olin included his new Super-X magnum 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8 ounces of shot. Winchester ~ Model 12 Trap ~ Pump Action Shotgun ~ 12 Gauge. The number of pellet holes was divided by the average number of pellets in the load to produce the pattern percentage. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. Numbers match on barrel and receiver. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. When I dress Western, nothing beats the classic good looks of my Smith & Wesson (S&W) 586 .357 revolver. This test determines if excessive peening of the bolt locking cut in the receiver has occurred. Simmons vent rib installed. The Duck Stamp Law of 1934 was enacted to provide funds for waterfowl propagation. Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. Smith Double Barrel Shotgun $250 Mar 24, 2023 Browning "Twenty" Semi Automatic Shotgun $200 Mar 24, 2023 Browning "Light Twelve" Semi Automatic Shotgun $200 Mar 24, 2023 Browning Pump Action Shotgun $150 Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1 choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition reduced, Winchester Model 12 Pigeon Grade 12 Gauge. Curious, I fired five additional patterns at 60 yards with Model 12 number 1418XXX and the Winchester load of 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. I have a questionwhen a gun is described as having a "milled rib" I thought that referred to the fact that the barrel had posts that were milled as part of the barrel instead of being attachedI see guns described as having "round post milled ribs" I don't think that is correct? I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. Bids. Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known. Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards!

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