brakes, remember? The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. Sig Sauer P320 [Review+Video]: Worth It? - Pew Pew Tactical MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. U.S. lawsuits At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge Problem - Topic Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. Circumstances that explained those un-commanded discharges.. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. . In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. Where is this lightning striking twice? Would you? Sigs are crap! MPD guns fired on their own twice in 6 months - WISN Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. And thats just my opinion. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. I have no idea. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. 2. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. Too Many Accidents It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. First off, no joke on me. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. I didnt even touch it! Wounded by his own Holstered Sig Sauer P320, Veteran Tampa Police Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Funny how that works. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. SEPTA officer's handgun spontaneously fired in Philly's Suburban Station The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. Fair enough. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . . In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. I continue to bet my life on them. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. A shame but then no one was hurt. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. He points to it in the video. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. One hell of a conspiracy. Great job, this threat needed some levity! Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. About $300. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. The Glock fails on both counts. Detective Brittney Hilton sues Sig Sauer after she says holstered P320 They suck and Im awesome!, 2. Alec Baldwin fatally shoots cinematographer, injures director on set of The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. (unless theyre SWAT or something). While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. That took a lot. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Still waiting. The P320 pistol is a dog. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. Did a Sig Sauer P320 Fire On Its Own? A Police Officer - 19FortyFive Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. He probably had a double until it was over. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? They are being replaced with Glocks. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. PDs are dropping them from contracts. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. No, it doesnt. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. It has nothing to do with Glock. How about something more relevant. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. Kyle . No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle.
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